[00:00:04] Broadcasting live from atop the Rocky Mountains, the crossroads of the West, you are listening to the Liberty Roundtable Radio Talk Show. Happy to have you along, my fellow Americans. Sam Bushman, hard-hitting news the network refused to use always. We're talking to Wilk Wilkinson. He's of BraverAngels.org.
[00:00:28] They've got an incredible event coming up at the end of June, right before the 250 massive celebrations to kick off. They're going to set the standard. They're going to set the stage for a clarion call for civility, for people to say, you know what? We can be okay at the dinner table. We can be okay at church. We can be okay with our families and not have a meltdown. We can learn to disagree agreeably. We can learn to hold not the common ground necessarily,
[00:00:56] although we need to articulate the common ground and know where that at least stands from an intelligence point of view, not the middle ground. You don't have to have the squishy middle and lose all your own identity. You don't have to do that stuff, but you can hold the higher ground, ladies and gentlemen. The moral high ground is the way the founding fathers would put it, and I couldn't agree more. Wilk is with me to talk about the details of their conference. It's going to be in Philadelphia. Where, sir? Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, Temple University, Sam.
[00:01:23] It's going to be right there north of Center City in Philadelphia at Temple University. Great, great campus there. We're going to have, we're going to bring together, you know, hopefully have a full thousand, thousand person delegation to join us there in Philadelphia to do a lot of great things. To do a marvelous work and a wonder, ladies and gentlemen, a great work bringing people together,
[00:01:51] setting aside their differences in meaningful, productive ways. And it starts with conversations. You know, I remember the old liberal talk show host women, can we talk? And it really kind of makes me laugh, but it also makes me realize they had something there. Wilk? Well, yeah. Well, there is definitely something there, Sam. I mean, being able to talk and more importantly, being able to listen, right?
[00:02:15] I mean, that's one of the things that people forget in conversation, especially when they are in conversation with somebody they disagree with. That ability to listen, listen with intention and listen with the intention not to just respond, but to understand what somebody believes and more importantly, why they believe it. How do you hold on to your beliefs, but yet work with other people? How do you do that?
[00:02:43] Like, if you know that I'm a constitutionalist and I don't think Donald should go to work, he doesn't have authority without congressional approval, and I just stand on that. And you think, you know what, Sam, he had to go. You don't even know what you're talking about and you're mad at me. How do you deal with that when you're just mad at me? Well, here's the way I would look at it, Sam. And this is what I try to promote when I'm talking, when I do mindset coaching and things like that, is there are a lot of things that we aren't going to be able to control in this world, and the way other people see things is certainly one of them.
[00:03:13] And it's my responsibility to respond to that in the right way and to react to that in the right way. And if at least I know why you believe what you believe, Sam, and I can see you as another human being without demonizing you, I have a lot easier time understanding and working through those things with you. And at the end of the day, even if we don't agree, we can still be friends
[00:03:42] because we see each other as human beings, not some kind of caricature of what we thought each other was. Yeah, see, I aspire to be kind of a Nathaniel Gorham, a George Washington, a Patrick Henry. You know, these guys all rolled into one, kind of the Marian Francis, Swamp Fox kind of guy, all these guys that defend the sacred cause of liberty all the way, baby, all the way to the mat. See, I want to be that kind of guy in my modern day, and that's what I kind of aspire to be. I don't need to be a religious leader. I don't need to control anybody.
[00:04:12] I don't need to do all those things. But I do want to stand super tall for the sacred cause of liberty. That's your agency, your ability to choose for yourself. And as long as you're not choosing in ways for yourself that destroys other people's agency, then I'm all cool with it. And that's kind of a unique libertarian with morals kind of a stance, a founding father-esque viewpoint going forward. Most people don't even know who Nathaniel Gorham is or who the Swamp Fox is
[00:04:38] or these kind of things, or who our buddy General Glover, John Glover. People don't even know who that guy is, but he's led the Marblehead Regiment in the founding era. You know, I want to be like these kind of guys. Those are the guys that I hope to be like. And you can say they're a bunch of old redneck, blue-collar, great, fine. Say what you want. They might be. Nevertheless, they had incredible wisdom that created the freest country in the history of the world for the longest time ever. I celebrate that and want everybody to learn from those principles.
[00:05:07] That's me, Wilk, in a nutshell. Well, I love it. Sam, these are the things that all Americans should be aspiring to. You know, we've been around for 250 years. Most republics in the history of republics have not lasted that long, certainly as successful as we have. And I hope that through the grace of God and some divine providence, we can make it another 250 years or more.
[00:05:36] But if we continue on this path of not being able to work with each other or seeing those that we disagree with as enemies or even worse, just completely dehumanizing them to the point where we can justify violence, we don't get to celebrate another 250 years. Now, you and I will be long gone by that time. But I hope our ancestors are looking back and saying, you know what, at the 250th, Sam Bushman and Wilk Wilkinson
[00:06:04] were doing incredible things during that celebration. And it's because of the work that they were doing that we got to make it to the 500-year mark. Makes you want to sing, celebrate good times. Come on. There we go. Ladies and gentlemen, it's the kind of thing where we hope to make a difference in the world. And I realize that the world's full of violence. And I realize that violence is the... But you know what? Myself, along with a buddy of mine, Sheriff Richard Mack,
[00:06:31] who runs the Constitutional Sheriff's and Peace Officers Association organization, you know, people of Southern Poverty Law Center, many groups have said that we're kind of violent and promoting violence. We've got $100,000 out now that we're willing to pay to anybody that can tie me or him to any violence. Oh, my gosh. They can't do it, Wilk, because it doesn't exist, buddy. Well, you know what? This is what happens, especially in this age of outrage and misinformation, Sam,
[00:07:00] is people will... People just understand, unfortunately. And I hate to use straw man arguments, but there are people out there, and I'm not going to name anybody, but there are people out there that will say things that are patently false and just for the sake of creating outrage. I mean, I call it the fog model, fear, outrage, and grievance. Yeah, they berate instead of derate, don't they? Well, they berate, they demean, they despise and everything else,
[00:07:30] but they use this law of derate, fear, outrage, and grievance to keep us separated. And that's, you know, when they make up stuff about you, they make up stuff about me, they try to tie, you know, depolarization to some grand conspiracy for some color revolution thing. These things are not true. There is no real evidence for it, but they find enough goofy stuff online to tie together this web of deceit.
[00:07:57] And it's just, it's simply, it's, you know what, it's one of these things that, you know, we know what we're doing is right, Sam. We are patriots. We love our country. We love our fellow man. We love God, family, and country. And we will not be deterred by those people that are spreading hate, lies, and misinformation. All right. If I go to braverangels.org and I set up your conference happening in Philadelphia at the university there, the 25th through the 28th, what's going to go down on there?
[00:08:27] We've got one, a big event hall where you can go meet people, like-minded people, and learn about their products and services and who they are and all these groups. And you can do the exhibitors hall. What else can you do? Yeah. So there's the exhibitors hall. But more than that, we're going to have several different plenaries. We've got a plenary starting. Our opening plenary is on Thursday night. And then we've got several breakout sessions all the way through between our plenary sessions.
[00:08:58] Between Thursday and Sunday at 1 o'clock, we've got marquee breakouts. We've got plenary sessions that include all kinds of different incredible, whether it be strategic partners or Braver Angels highlights and things like that, things that have happened over the course of the past couple years since our last convention in Kenosha, Wisconsin.
[00:09:24] And Braver Angels is really going through right now a bit of a transformation. We've got a brand new – well, he was brand new last July, but a brand new CEO. And then a bunch of us on leadership came together in a couple-day incredible workshop seminar to come up with courageous citizenship.
[00:09:50] And we want courageous citizenship to be the honored norm in our country, Sam. So the arc, this arc of transformation that we want to see come out of the convention is based upon courageous citizenship. And the theme is 1776 to 2026, a pledge renewed.
[00:10:16] So in 1776, the old phrase was we pledge our fame, our fortune, our sacred honor. Yeah, and our sacred honor to this country. And that pledge is one that we are looking to renew. I don't know why I botched that so bad. It's okay. It's all about freedom's calling. It's all about standing together.
[00:10:46] It's all about hope, faith, prosperity, stability, safety. And it happens at the Braver Angels Conference, braverangels.org. Will Wilkinson will be there, and he'll tell you more in seconds. You're watching Liberty Mountain Live. Are you watching what's happening in our country and asking, what can I do? Join the John Birch Society in Salt Lake City, June 6th, for a powerful one-day conference. The day includes a host of respected speakers, two meals, and meaningful connections.
[00:11:12] You'll gain clarity on the issues and walk away with practical steps you can take to your community. Reserve your seat today at jbs.org forward slash SLC26. That's jbs.org forward slash SLC26. Why don't we say to the government, writ large, that they have to spend a little bit less? Anybody ever had less money this year than you had last? Anybody ever having a 1% pay cut? You deal with it.
[00:11:41] That's what government needs, a 1% pay cut. If you take a 1% pay cut across the board, you have more than enough money to actually pay for the disaster relief. But nobody's going to do that because they're fiscally irresponsible. Who are they? Republicans. Who are they? Democrats. Who are they? Virtually the whole body is careless and reckless with your money. So the money will not be offset by cuts anywhere. The money will be added to the debt, and there will be a day of reckoning.
[00:12:11] What's the day of reckoning? The day of reckoning may well be the collapse of the stock market. The day of reckoning may be the collapse of the dollar. When it comes, I can't tell you exactly, but I can tell you it has happened repeatedly in history when countries ruin their currency. Sheriff Mack standing tall. Still answering freedom's call. A badge of promise. It's a pledge renewed, ladies and gentlemen. You got to dig it.
[00:12:41] Braverangels.org slash 2026 dash conference. Oh, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Dash convention. Braverangels.org slash 2026 dash convention. Check it out. Braver angels will convene their 26th national convention in Philadelphia. Philadelphia. And it's a pledge renewed.
[00:13:08] We need to renew the thoughts of our founding fathers, the thoughts of those who came before us. It doesn't matter where their political beliefs were. It doesn't matter what your political beliefs are. What matters is we learn to come together and agree on things that matter most. Bringing together Americans across the political spectrum just days before our 250 massive celebrations all over the country. They're going to kick it off and do it right.
[00:13:35] So, Wilk, you were saying right before the pause a little bit about they were willing to give out their fame, fortune, and sacred honors, right? Yeah. The founders had their lives or they said we pledge our lives, our fortunes, our sacred honor. And that's what we're doing with a pledge renewed. We want to see this country last 250 years and more beyond this great 250th celebration here.
[00:14:04] And that's why we're doing it in Philadelphia. What better place to do it, right, Sam? But, yeah, there's this intentional arc of how we're doing this. And, you know, that starts with on Thursday coming together and recognizing our inheritance and our responsibility. And you mentioned earlier, Sam, the word agency. That's what Courageous Citizenship is really based upon is agency.
[00:14:28] Reclaiming our agency as individuals and then how we can branch and scale that out into our communities and then eventually our country. But if we want to renew this pledge, the arc of this convention that we're doing is going to be about recognizing that inheritance and responsibility and then talking about, you know, how do we as individuals? The renewal begins with me.
[00:14:57] And then how do we take that to action at scale? Because one of the things that we want to ensure people understand is it's not just talking for the sake of talking or doing workshops just to get to know each other better. This is about how we develop action and how we can work together within our communities and our cities and our towns and our states to bring this action to scale.
[00:15:23] And then that renewal goes from just being about us to just being about us together. And how we can turn that me into we and work together. And that's what Braver Angels next chapter is really about, Sam, is taking this pledge renewed and turning it into collaborative action and skill building and convening with people that we may or may not agree with.
[00:15:52] But we understand that it's going to take action to get this to take this country through another 250 years or more. All right, ladies and gentlemen, from me and thee, we become we through BraverAngels.org. Ladies and gentlemen, you can learn more about their event if you go to their website. Give me a little kind of a snapshot of some of the speakers that I'll want to see.
[00:16:16] Yeah, so we've got, well, I can tell you right now that one of the great breakouts, and I bring this up because I want to make sure that people understand if they are going to join us, to stick around until Sunday because one of the final marquee breakouts that we're going to have is going to be me facilitating a conversation between Dr. Francis Collins,
[00:16:41] former director of the NIH, and Dr. John Ioannidis, one of the most cited and respected medical professionals in history, Stanford professor Dr. John Ioannidis. So that's going to be on Sunday. So if you do buy your tickets and you do get your plane, you know, your airfare all booked and ready to go, make sure you're not leaving until late on Sunday because that's going to be one of the final marquee breakouts.
[00:17:06] But we are going to have some incredible, and I'm sorry, I'm trying to get back to the lineup. Yeah, one of the things, when I went to Turning Point USA, one of the things that was the most incredible, the speakers were awesome. Everybody loved to see the speakers, but really people loved the hall, the convention, the exhibitor hall where you can meet people and talk to people and make friends
[00:17:32] and create relationships that, you know, if you're smart, you document those people that you meet in organizations that you see that you kind of gel with and feel like, hey, we're on the same wavelength, we can work together, we can do some things. You really come out of there with some contacts. Believe it or not, half the people I work with today have come out of those kinds of events and conventions and exhibitor halls and then watching speakers and then discussing those speakers. And, I mean, half the people that I work with come from that kind of a situation. Wilk?
[00:17:59] Yeah, well, and this is the great thing about the Braver Angels convention, Sam, is a lot of our premier speakers, a lot of our premier guests are doing breakouts as well as things during the, you know, these marquee plenary sessions. Like we've got Larry Rosen from The Enemies Project. Him and his daughter, Sadie Rosen, started The Enemies Project, which has been seen millions and millions of times.
[00:18:25] It's a YouTube television show about bringing together people that are enemies for better understanding of one another. That's going to be an incredible breakout session. You've all live in is coming to be part of a live recording of the Braver Way podcast with the great Monica Guzman.
[00:18:51] We've got several film screenings that are going to be happening with people like Daniel Carslake is an award-winning film producer that is just coming out with a movie called It's All the Rage, and we're going to be premiering that. Michael Primo with Storyline Media is going to be premiering his award-winning film, Homegrown, at the plenary session.
[00:19:21] These are all people that you're going to be able to see and interact with and ask questions of. A lot of people also don't know about the Problem Solvers Caucus. Sam, the Problem Solvers Caucus in Congress, Representatives Tom Swasey and Brian Fitzpatrick are going to be with us for a short thing.
[00:19:50] I believe it's on Friday afternoon. Oh, I love them, but they got their work cut out for them. They got their work cut out for them, don't they? Yes, sir, but our prayers are that they're successful. Oh, it's great. And one of our big initiatives coming out of the last conference or the last convention in 2024, Sam, was the Citizens Commission on Immigration.
[00:20:12] You know, Braver Angels does not take policy positions on anything, but we do provide a structure by which people can come to solutions on big problems. So, Wilt might have his own opinions and take positions personally, but the organization does not. That's right. Is that right? That's right, because as individuals within this organization, we are encouraged to speak freely, fully, and without fear. That is the thing.
[00:20:40] So, it's not one of these things where Braver Angels is going to take a position, a hard stance on immigration one way or the other, but each of us as individuals has our own agency within this organization to say, you know what? This is my position. You know, it's not the position of the organization, but it's mine, and this is something that I feel strongly about. You know, and Braver Angels has brought together some incredible people.
[00:21:03] You know, the two gentlemen that are going to be our co-chairs this year, because Braver Angels typically has a person from the blue side of the political spectrum and the red side of the political spectrum come together as co-chairs for their convention. I was actually the red co-chair in 2023 at our Gettysburg convention, Sam.
[00:21:24] But this year, we've got Jim Robb from Numbers USA, and then Diego, for whatever reason, I'm blanking on his last name, and I feel really bad about that. But they're part of our convention co-chairs this year, Sam. All right.
[00:21:52] Well, remember this, folks, and I don't see red or blue, so there you go. I just believe in the red, white, and blue. See what I'm talking about? All I'm telling you is that, look, we need to come together. We need to understand. We need to have a broader understanding of the world around us and people's views and thoughts and beliefs so that we have a reference point by which to root our beliefs, either one, to change them if it's justified. Believe it or not, sometimes when people meet, they actually change their viewpoints. It's rare. Sometimes when you try to convince somebody against their opinion, they're of the same opinion still. I get it.
[00:22:22] But people do change their minds. People do grow. People do evolve. People do progress. That's the hope part. But it also helps you as you discuss these things intelligently without anger, without displacement, without all these other words that denote manipulation and everything else. When you discuss these things, it might help you harden your beliefs.
[00:22:44] And that's why I'm so strong in my beliefs because I've been at this for 30 years, debating, discussing, talking, learning, studying, researching, becoming a scholar on the Constitution of the Founders. And were they perfect? No. Is the Constitution perfect? No. No. But is it the best thing we have until the Savior, Jesus Christ, returns? I personally believe so. So rather than arguing with it or saying how bad it is, I'd rather say let's return to it. The only time we really have problems is when we avoid the principles therein.
[00:23:10] If we embrace the principles therein, it's far from perfect, but it's the best we have. And the proof is in the pudding, if you will. And so I kind of stand on that. And the more I discuss with people, yeah, I learn to articulate it more politely, more kindly, more appropriately. But I also become more solid in my beliefs because they've been honed over time. That's what we want everybody to learn to do, learn to have that bigger understanding. But it's okay if you double down on your beliefs.
[00:23:36] That doesn't hurt anything if it's done right, respectfully and honorably. Will, give me a parting shot for the event, sir. Yeah, I would just, like I said, I would encourage people to, when you realize that there's a problem and you want to be part of the solution, you have to find out what that solution is. And Braver Angels is the solution to this toxic polarization thing here in the United States today.
[00:24:04] So come join us in Philadelphia for our 2026 convention, June 25 through 28. Check us out, braverangels.org slash convention. And you can sign up there. I will say that there is housing still available if you want to stay on campus with us. But that has to be done by June 8th. So as long as you get your application in for housing on campus, get it done by June 8th. And we'd love to have you. We'd love to have your voice at the table.
[00:24:34] Come join us in Philadelphia, June 25 through 28. Wilk Wilkinson, everybody. Thanks so much, braverangels.org. God save our constitutional republic. Good luck.