Radio Show Hour 2 – 06/16/2025

[00:00:13] Broadcasting live from atop the Rocky Mountains, the crossroads of the West. You are listening to the Liberty Roundtable Radio Talk Show. All right, happy to have you along my fellow Americans. Sam Bushman live on your radio. Hard-hitting news the network refused to use, no doubt continues now. This is the broadcast for June 16th in the year of our Lord, 2025. This is Hour 202.

[00:00:40] The goal always is to promote God, family, country, protect life, liberty, property. Do so on your radio. Using the supreme law of the land and the checks and balances and everything else. It's incredible. Got a lot of work to do. Got a battle in the culture, war. I'm just telling you right now, we're throwing it down, people. And to do so with me today, this hour, Lowell Nelson, CampaignForLiberty.org, one of the key people in the great state of Utah and across the country. Campaign for Liberty doing a phenomenal job, to say the least. Lowell, welcome back, sir. Hope you guys had a happy Father's Day.

[00:01:11] I sure did, Sam. Very pleasant. I celebrated, of course, with family. Primarily, I had a few friends. And so it turned out really nice. Good to be with you this morning. Where do we go here? Ron Paul, speaking out boldly, nobly, independently, as he always does. That's how we kind of kick it off today, right? I think so. His column posted on Monday of last week.

[00:01:39] He posts every Monday and has been doing this for at least 30 years. Great columns relevant to what's going on in current affairs. And he asked the question, can Trump and Musk make up? Well, you know, he's sort of tongue-in-cheek there because the real issue is the big, ugly bill that Trump likes to call the big, beautiful bill. That was the reason for the breakup.

[00:02:03] And so, anyway, Ron Paul goes into this a little bit and does an excellent job of explaining what was going to happen. I mean, basically, you know, Musk supported Donald Trump in his run for the presidency. Then Trump appointed Musk to run Doge. And Musk did a great job there and covered, you know, billions of dollars of wasteful spending, corrupted spending, and so forth.

[00:02:32] And, you know, it basically allowed Americans, the rest of us, to see up close and personal some of the things that our own government was doing. Quote, not only did the billions spent by the federal government not achieve the stated goals, but much of the spending actually harmed the United States. End quote. That's Ron Paul's right from his column.

[00:02:52] And so Americans are able to see that, for example, the aid that was sent overseas doesn't really provide food and relief for those who are suffering, you know, from whatever disasters engulfed them, rather. However, it's used to create a global U.S. empire encompassing everything from media to military spending to nonprofits.

[00:03:16] For example, we learned that 90 percent of the so-called independent media in Ukraine was controlled by the U.S. government. And other countries are part of the same thing. Obviously, foreign journalists are going to report what the U.S. regime was published, but they're not going to get paid if they report something contrary to the wishes of the people who employ them.

[00:03:39] Ron Paul says this is one reason most Americans today are so ill-informed about Ukraine and what started that war. For example, he writes, quote, how many Americans know that their own government staged a coup in Ukraine in 2014 that directly led to the disaster we have seen these past three years? End of quote. Well, Ron Paul summarized it this way, saying, quote,

[00:04:05] The United States is, wait, he should have said are. The United States are being undermined by a government that demands the right to intervene in every aspect of our lives and of the lives of everyone on the planet. End of quote. Well, in any case, the so-called Big Beautiful Bill broke it apart. Musk could not remain silent about his disdain for the bill. Well, after all, he is not on Trump's payroll.

[00:04:34] You know, you can imagine what he wouldn't have said anything if he'd been on Trump's payroll. Elon Musk, he's well enough off that he has no compunction about saying what he thinks. And so he said what he thinks about the bill.

[00:04:48] And as we discussed last week, the U.S. House approved this massive funding bill that, as usual, blew up the national debt with more spending and commerce that sometime down the road spending cuts would kick in and we would start to save money.

[00:05:06] Well, you know, Sam, in my box of members of Congress, which was just Saturday, by the way, back both to John Curtis and to Mike Kennedy, they mentioned the good things in the bill, like the tax cuts and like the reduction in spending and like having to work, you know, say if you're on Medicaid or Medicare or Medicaid or one of those two. But they don't mention that the tax cuts and other reductions don't kick in for several years.

[00:05:31] Ron Paul writes, he emphasizes this point, quote, we've seen this movie many times before, end of quote. And boy, if he ride his reign. Musk posted on X, quote, this massive, outrageous, pork-filled congressional spending bill is a disgusting abomination, end of quote. And he was ride his reign on this too. And so that's the thing, Sam, this big, beautiful bill, which is really a big, ugly bill.

[00:06:01] They've got the front-load the spending, meaning that's going to happen immediately, and they backload the cuts, meaning they won't take effect until after Trump leaves office. Now, what does that do?

[00:06:16] That just creates this big incentive for Democrats to win the midterms in 27 or 26 and or the presidential elections in 28 so that then they can undo the tax cuts and the good things that are in this bill before they take effect.

[00:06:40] That's the game plan here, Sam, and that's why Ron Paul wisely says we've seen this movie many times before. See, that's the problem with this whole thing, Lowell, in my opinion, is Elon Musk is right on this. It's a bogus bill. Now, I agree that Elon went over the top and attacked Trump way too much. He should have stuck the bill into the points. He would have had a lot more credibility than going off like a psychopath, which he kind of did. I think that was wrong, but I think he's right on the bill.

[00:07:09] Rand Paul, many others are speaking out. Even Green, Congresswoman Green, said, I voted for it the first time, but I didn't know what was in it, and next time I'm not going to vote for it when it comes around again because I kind of feel like I've been fleeced. Well, now people are mocking Green saying, well, you should have read the bill. And that's the problem with these bills. See, it's not possible to read the bill. Number one, it's like 1,000-plus pages long. Number two, they bring it out of committee literally and vote on it so fast you don't have time to read it even if you could.

[00:07:37] And then even if you can read the bill, ladies and gentlemen, just so you understand, it has all through these 1,000 pages phrases like this. We will change sections such and such and such and such of code to be this section updated wording to this. Well, unless you go back and read the context of the wording in the other, quote, you know, code and then analyze those changes and what they really mean, you can't know.

[00:08:07] And so reading the bills isn't possible. And that's a lot of the reason that they don't read the bills because they can't. Okay. To read the bill literally takes an army of attorneys to go through and read the bill, find out what the changes are, and then, you know, develop some kind of an attorney executive summary saying, hey, we've dug into this back code. Here's what the changes are. Here's the details. It's not even possible to read the bills anymore based on the way that they draw these up and the way they do these things. And so we have real problems with this.

[00:08:37] And so Green kind of brought up an important point. Thomas Massey, which we'll get to in a minute, brought up some reality checks. Rand Paul brought up some reality checks, which is very good. Lizzie, in your email, there's a video I'm hoping you can play from Rand Paul. I just sent it to you. So while she's looking to see if we can get that up and queued up, you know, Tom or Elon Musk was right about this. Now, like I say, he should not have created a big old fight with Trump. That was a waste of time and a clown show. But he was spot on on the bill.

[00:09:04] Now, what's frustrating to me is that President Trump, instead of listening to the feedback from true constitutional conservatives and people who really have Trump's back, Trump kind of has this attitude that if you don't do anything he wants, you know, loyalty is not a two way street with the Donald, sadly. And we're finding this out. I think loyalty should be a two way street and he should go. Wait a minute. If Thomas Massey is against it, if Rand Paul's against it, if Elon Musk's against it, if Lowell Nelson, Sam Bushman, who, you know, a lot of these trusted people are against it. And wait a minute.

[00:09:33] What's the issue here? Well, anyway, so Rand Paul started getting attacked relentlessly by Trump. And so now Rand Paul went on. I can't remember what it is. Face the Nation or one of these clown shows over the weekend. And he basically gave what it would take for him to vote for the bill. And I think he's off to a good start. But I still don't think it's enough. Here's what Rand Paul had to say over the weekend. Called you, quote, the toughest vote in the history of the U.S. Senate.

[00:10:03] Senator, let me ask you, as of today, are you a yes on this bill or no? Well, I take that as a compliment. And I talked to the president last evening after the parade. And we're trying to get to a better place in our conversations. And I've let him know that I'm not an absolute no. I can be a yes. I like the tax cuts. I actually agree with Art Laffer and the supply siders that a lot of times we cut rates, we actually get more revenue. So I don't have as much trouble with the tax cuts.

[00:10:32] I think there should be more spending cuts. But if they want my vote, they'll have to negotiate because they don't want to vote to raise the debt ceiling $5 trillion. You know, Congress is awful with money. And so you should give them a more restricted credit line, not an expansive one. Yes, the debt ceiling has to go up. But what I've said is it ought to go up three months at a time. And then we should have a renewed debate about the debt. We shouldn't put it up $5 trillion and wait two years, go through another election cycle and be almost towards the end of the Trump administration and say, Oh, whoops, we have added a bunch of debt.

[00:11:01] We should have done better. I think we should keep talking about it. Senator, very quickly, I have two more questions and one minute left. What's it going to take to get you to a yes specifically, very quickly? Separate out the debt ceiling and have a separate vote on it. And I won't be deciding vote on this. Is this what I tell my supporters? I will be. If I am the deciding vote, they'll negotiate. If I'm not, they won't. So far, they've been, you know, sending their attack dogs after me. And that's not a great persuasion technique. But I will negotiate if they come to me.

[00:11:31] But they have to be willing to negotiate on the debt ceiling because I'm conservative and I'm not going to, you know, no longer be conservative just because the president wants me to vote for something. Well, and that's the critical point. But see, even Rand Paul capitulated there, Lowell Nelson, and said, hey, you know, we're going to have to increase the debt ceiling. I don't understand why. I don't understand why we have to increase the debt ceiling. Why is that a given by everybody, including Rand Paul? See, I don't think it is. If you go to Doge and you start cutting, spending, spending, cutting, cutting, cutting, cutting, cutting, we can live within our means.

[00:12:01] And it must start now. So why do we have to increase the debt ceiling at all, Lowell? All right, we'll try to get Lowell Nelson back. So there you have that, ladies and gentlemen. I'm just telling you, I don't really understand why. Let's go ahead and take our quick break if we can. And then we can regroup with Lowell Nelson here in just a second. But I don't see why, folks. I really don't see why at all.

[00:12:29] We have to take the debt ceiling and say it's going to increase. That's a given. Because when will that stop? If it's a given now, will it be a given in three months and three months after that and so on? I'm telling you, it's got to stop, folks. When can we reduce spending enough to live within our means? That's my question. Do you treasure your liberty? Well, at LovingLiberty.net, we most certainly do.

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[00:14:44] Okay, I'm back, folks. Ladies and gentlemen, this is Lowell Nelson riding shotgun with Sam Bushman this morning on Liberty Roundtable Live. I enjoyed that quote from, I mean, that clip from Rand Paul talking about the big, beautiful bill

[00:15:13] and whether he could negotiate on it and whether he could support it or not. You know, one other thing they do, Sam, they did. You're talking about rushing this massive 1,000-page bill through the House. The House has a rule, by the way, that says that a bill must be posted for 72 hours before a vote on it can occur. And they trampled that rule under their feet every time one of these omnibus bills comes along.

[00:15:43] Yeah, but there's no penalty or consequences for doing it, so it means nothing. It's just a game play lie to the American people to make you believe they're responsible and accountable. Yeah, yeah, you're exactly right. I'm just saying that this is their nature, right? Their rules are made to be broken. They don't observe the rules. They don't observe the Constitution. They don't adhere to the rules of law. I mean, it just goes on and on. And so that's one of the big problems that they were got back there.

[00:16:11] And I just appreciate Ron Paul bringing up, and Tom Spetsky does this too, bringing up the fact that the spending in this bill occurs right now, but they call it front-loading, right? They put that to the front, and then the tax cuts and the good parts of this bill are all down the road. They're four years down the road.

[00:16:38] They won't take effect until after Trump leaves office. I mean, so to me, that is a huge problem. We're supposed to be matching the spending with the cuttings, right? And that just doesn't happen in this bill. And so I wouldn't blame Marjorie Catering Green or Rand Paul or Thomas Massey, any of them, for voting against this bill. It is a very deadly bill. And it deserves to be defeated.

[00:17:09] You know, the vote in the House was 215 to 214. So one U.S. representative in the House could have changed, could have defeated that bill. But they didn't. And so I don't know. There's just a lot of problems with this bill. I mean, there's two other reasons that we should have voted against it. And a lot of the representatives did not know this, but buried in this big, ugly bill with this idea that the feds would have some,

[00:17:39] would begin taking some control over home schools and private schools, right? Because if you accept the subsidy from the federal government and you're a private school and you accept the subsidy, then you will soon be under their thumb, right? They will regulate you and say, look, if you're getting money from the federal government, then you have to do what we say you have to do. That's buried in this big, ugly bill.

[00:18:08] I think the AI moratorium is buried in this bill, too, this idea that the federal government is going to prevent state legislatures from making any legislation or rules on AI. And this is a huge breach of federalism, the concept of federalism. The general government should not be telling the states what they can or cannot do. The states are the sovereigns here. We're the adults in the room.

[00:18:38] We just don't act like it. So those are two more reasons, Sam, that we should vote down and defeat this big, ugly bill. Now, Rand Paul said, hey, you've got to separate the debt ceiling and have a vote straight up and down on that. I think that's a good step in the right direction, but I don't think it's enough. Rand capitulated on the mainstream networks. Why these guys go on the mainstream networks and promote them is beyond me. That's a whole other topic. But to me, why do we have to increase the debt ceiling at all, though? I know Rand's like, it's a given. We've got to increase it.

[00:19:07] Let's do it three months at a time instead. But what's to stop you from in three months saying we've got to increase the debt ceiling? And in three months, we've got to increase the debt ceiling. And in three months, we've got to. Okay, why do we got to do that? If we cut spending enough, we don't need to increase the debt ceiling at all, do we? Well. No, no. We shouldn't be increasing the debt ceiling. We should just cut spending. So we don't have to increase the debt ceiling. And that's where Thomas Massey is, and he's the next up at bat. Yeah, he is.

[00:19:36] He has a great article published in the New American magazine called The New American. Most Recent Issues labeled, what, June 23rd. So that's this week. Well, yeah, a week from today. Anyway, the most recent issue, I have a hard copy right here in my hands. He voted against the big, ugly bill. And we need to know some of the details in this bill if we expect to influence Congress to defeat it.

[00:20:04] Thomas Massey, by the way, he has a 99% lifetime score on the New American Freedom Index. With me, folks, he votes with the Constitution almost all of the time. And most representatives don't even come close to Massey's stellar voting record. Yes, the big bill does renew key tax cuts from the 2017 Tax Cuts and Jobs Act.

[00:20:28] But it increases spending by over $300 billion and a projected national debt surpassing $50 trillion within a decade. So it contains work requirements for Medicaid recipients. That's a good thing. It refills the Green New Deal. That's a good thing. Yeah, I mean, so there's a lot to like in this bill. I just wish they would have split them out into separate bills. In fact, I asked Mike Kennedy about this on Saturday.

[00:20:56] Why not split these things out into various bills? His answer was, well, a lot of what Congress does is split out into separate single-issue bills. And that's true, right? I mean, they might pass nine or ten of them.

[00:21:12] But when it comes to the controversial spending and cutting issues, you know, the House Speaker puts them all together because he knows that he's not going to get his spending if he doesn't load it up with cuts as well. So that's probably the reason. And we just need Congressmen who will push back against this habit they have of making these big omnibus spending bills.

[00:21:42] Anyway, where was I on this article with Thomas Massey? Yeah, so in other words, these two things that I just mentioned, the two good things, right, the work requirements for Medicaid recipients and repeating the Green New Deal. Well, guess what, folks? This big, ugly bill that says these do not take effect until after Trump leaves office.

[00:22:04] They're by creating opportunities and incentives for future Congresses to undo or block them, meaning the good things, before they take effect. Well, basically what we have here is spending increases take effect almost immediately in the present day. Hold on.

[00:22:26] Why don't we just really, if we're going to vote on the bill every single year, why don't we just, you know, hey, pair the vote, the bill down to one year and talk about one year. What are we going to cut? What are we going to save? What are we going to spend one year at a time? Why do we have to go 10 years and play games and do all these lies and all this stuff? Hey, they're only in Congress for two years anyway. So and they only vote they only vote twice per, quote, congressional election cycle in the House, at least. And they're the ones that control the purse strings.

[00:22:56] Why don't they just do one year period? Because they're going to have to do it again and vote next year anyway. Right. So why not just deal with the question? Yeah, that's common sense, Sam. You know how dumb Sam Bushman is and redneck doesn't have a clue over there. And, you know, but this is the problem that we face is that they they they bait us into these lies. Why are we talking about after Trump leaves office? Why are we even talking about that? Yeah. Yeah, it's crazy.

[00:23:22] Well, another thing, Sam, Thomas Massey told the New American something was a secret reported last year. I can't remember. But our credit rating took a big hit a couple of weeks ago, meaning the U.S. The credit rating, credit rating that the bond issuers assign to various, you know, debtors. Right. Our credit rating went up. Our credit rating now is weaker than it was two weeks ago.

[00:23:51] What that means is the United States must pay a higher rate of interest on its debt. Massey said, quote, we already saw the rates run up on U.S. Treasury bonds are now at 5%, which is what we have to pay the U.S. government's finance debt on a 30-year note now. And that's because the bond markets are seeing that we're not serious. That's a big, big problem.

[00:24:17] And so, anyway, Massey summarized this point earlier that the savings and the big, beautiful bill happened in the last five-year window. The expenses, they happened in the first five-year window. Thomas Massey has a 99% constitutionality rating by the new American, too. There's nobody like him in Congress right now. God bless Thomas Massey. He's spot on. Quick pause. Lowell Nelson continues in seconds. On your radio.

[00:24:50] Corruption. Informing citizens. Pursuing liberty. Liberty. You're listening to Liberty News Radio. News this hour from townhall.com. I'm Rich Thomason. The 57-year-old man watched it in last week's shootings of two Minnesota lawmakers and their spouses, scheduled for a court hearing later today. One of the lawmakers and her spouse were killed. The suspect, Vance Bolter, was arrested last evening.

[00:25:18] Multiple agencies were there as FBI laid hands on it, and Minnesota State Patrol put the handcuffs on. Governor Tim Wall says Bolter was arrested in rural Sibley County, southwest of Minneapolis. Former Democratic House Speaker Melissa Hortman and her husband Mark were killed in their Brooklyn Park home early Saturday. Senator John Hoffman, also a Democrat, and his wife Yvette, were injured at their home about nine miles away. They are expected to recover.

[00:25:45] Israel has warned civilians in parts of Tehran to clear out the Israelis, apparently planning an attack. At least eight people died overnight in Israel as a result of Iranian missile strikes. Israel says it has achieved aerial superiority over Tehran, can fly over the Iranian capital without facing any major threats. The ongoing conflict will be high on the agenda of the G7 summit taking place in Alberta, Canada.

[00:26:10] I think the G7 is going to be tested because there is a war between sworn enemies who see their side of the argument as existential. The question, of course, will be not can the Europeans come up with a united position to try and put some influence on the conflict. The key question will be, can the Europeans and the other leaders that are here put some pressure or encourage or shape some of the thinking in Donald Trump?

[00:26:37] He is the only person who has potential influence and leverage over the Israelis. The BBC's James Landale says Mr. Trump is now in Alberta for that G7 summit. Rally underway on Wall Street this morning. The Dow up 487 points. NASDAQ ahead almost 300 points. More on these stories at townhall.com. Mike Gallagher here, host of the Mike Gallagher Show. If you know me, you know I only put my name behind people and companies I trust.

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[00:28:04] Can a nation conceived in liberty carry its head high if it denies protection to the youngest and most vulnerable of its citizens? Can a country founded on God-given rights continue to thrive without understanding that life is a precious gift from our Creator? I believe that great nations and great civilizations spring from a people who have a moral compass.

[00:28:32] I don't think a civilization can long endure that does not have respect for all human life, born and not yet dead. I will be in earnest. I will not equivocate and I will not excuse. I will not retreat an inch and I will be heard. One thing I promise you, I will always take a stand for life.

[00:28:59] Bypass the mainstream narrative with Liberty News Radio at libertynewsradio.com. Engage with charismatic hosts live or on demand. We cover the crucial news focused on God, family and country. News that other networks simply refuse to use. Think of LNR as hard-hitting news and podcasts at your fingertips anytime, anywhere. Join us at libertynewsradio.com. Empower your day with the truth because the truth will set you free.

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[00:30:12] Broadcasting live from atop the Rocky Mountains, the crossroads of the West, you are listening to the Liberty Roundtable Radio Talk Show. Welcome back, ladies and gentlemen. Hey, this is Lowell Nelson riding shotgun this morning with Sam Bushman, your host of Liberty Roundtable Live. We've been talking about this big, ugly bill that Trump likes to call the big, beautiful bill. The reasons why it should be defeated.

[00:30:40] Hopefully the Senate will see through all the smoke and mirrors and realize that it's basically spend now and pay later and never see the tax cuts as they promise. That's the bait-and-switch game, folks. And we've seen it for decades. That's what Congress does. They promise cuts, but they never ever come to pass.

[00:31:02] You know, but then the spending that they do is real, continues to increase the national debt. They also increase the debt ceiling. And it just goes on and on. And that's one reason why the dollar is failing. And it's going to be out of, it's going to lose its world reserve currency status at some point in the near future. And anyway, we just need to get rid of this. We need congressmen with guts. We need people like Thomas Massey.

[00:31:32] And I think Marjorie Taylor Greene is going to vote against it when it comes back around. You know, they're going to have a reconciliation process because the Senate has different ideas than the House. But it'll come to reconciliation, and then they'll all be, their arms will be twisted to vote for this monstrosity, this albatross, Sam. And then we get, you know, more debt or go further down the drain as a country. And I don't know about you, Sam.

[00:31:59] Sometimes I really wish the dollar would fail sooner than later so that, you know, the United States would quit meddling in the affairs of, in our affairs and in the affairs of other nations. I agree. And if that would really precipitate that, then it would be phenomenal. The problem is all they'll do is go to a digital currency, and they'll meddle even more, and they'll lock us down. And then they'll decide that you and I, our money's worth less than everybody else's because we, you know, didn't toe the line like we should have.

[00:32:26] And that's really the battle between Donald Trump, in my mind, and Elon Musk. You know, Elon was right. He went ballistic. Trump went ballistic. It was stupidity. Bunch of little kids, you know, don't know how to grow up out of the sandbox. You know, basically Trump threw his sucker in the dirt when, you know, Musk attacked him and then Musk went, oh, my gosh, I'm so sorry. That was horrible. Can they make up? Yes, they can. Will it be as great of a relationship as it once was? No, it never will. Will it be always tenuous? Yes. Because, again, it could blow up at any time.

[00:32:54] And that's the problem with these big, finicky, you know, billionaire folks is that they're not stable. Okay? They think they're larger than life. They think they're kind of bigger than God. And the problem is they've got to be humble. They've got to turn to God Almighty. And that's the problem with America, too. We think we can fix these things, big, beautiful bills, whatever the case may be, make America great again. And they don't really mention God too much. And the more we turn to God, the greater chance we'll have to actually make America great again because God's the only great one, ladies and gentlemen. All right.

[00:33:24] Thomas Massey is doing a phenomenal job. And as I mentioned, he has a 99% score on the New American's constitutionality. So he's just a great leader. And we commend Thomas Massey. Slouching towards authoritarianism, writes Judge Andrew Napolitano. And he's bringing up a very important point. And I'm going to disagree with him on this slightly, Lowell. But let's dig in. Yeah.

[00:33:49] What he's saying is he's talking about the riots and the property damage going on all across the nation by, you know, the left. Basically, I think it's funded by, well, I don't know who. But I think it's a funded operation. I don't think it's a grassroots, you know, spontaneous combustion type thing. I think Antifa types and BLM types are being, you know, paid.

[00:34:17] Some of them are being bussed into these big urban areas to cause trouble. It looks like a color revolution, actually. I mean, some of the CIA regime change operations that we have seen around the world, you know, since 1953, for example, over 193 regime change operations. And they often start this way. These color revolutions where you've got these revolutionaries protesting and violently, you know,

[00:34:47] damaging property and also resisting arrest and throwing things at cops and, you know, firebombing cars. I mean, that's kind of what's going on in these urban areas across the country this weekend and last. And so he's going to talk about this. Judge Andrew Napolitano, he says this, quote,

[00:35:13] End of quote. Now, Governor Newsom did not ask President Trump to send in the troops.

[00:35:39] And apparently, see, ICE was making warrantless arrests of persons they figured were unlawfully present in the United States. And as most everyone knows, demonstrations against ICE then popped up everywhere, some of them peaceful and some of them violent. Well, and obviously, folks, violence and interfering with an arrest is not appropriate. But condemning government behavior, waving flags and so forth, you know, that's a protected right guaranteed by the First Amendment.

[00:36:09] But President Trump ordered active duty Marines into the area. So Napolitano writes this, quote, And I agree with that a thousand percent. Yeah, right on.

[00:36:38] And Judge Knapp explains that the president is the commander in chief of U.S. troops and the state National Guard units when those units are called into service by Congress or by the president. In numerous statutes, he writes, Congress has defined when and under what circumstances the president may command state military personnel. End of quote.

[00:37:01] Now, most of us know that members of the National Guard help citizens in trouble after a tornado or a hurricane or a flood or earthquake. I mean, that's really, really what they were known for in my lifetime anyway. They selflessly rescue folks and they deliver aid and comfort to those who are adversely affected by natural disasters. That's what I grew up thinking the National Guard was. But can the National Guard be used for law enforcement?

[00:37:29] Well, according to Judge Knapp, Congress addressed and answered this question in the early years of our republic. 1792, 1794, 1795, and 1807. And basically, the laws passed by Congress then permit them, meaning the National Guard, to be used in law enforcement only when asked or requested by a state governor, not the president.

[00:37:56] Although they may be summoned by the president for law enforcement in the case of invasion or rebellion. Well, police power is reposed in the states. This is the principle of state sovereignty, writes Napolitano, quote, otherwise known as federalism. End of quote. And then he cites the Prince versus U.S. Supreme Court case where Sheriff Richard Mack and several other sheriffs challenged the constitutionality of the Brady handgun law.

[00:38:25] And they won. Right? The sheriffs won. Justice Scalia wrote that opinion and reinforced this concept of federalism. Quote, the primacy of the states in matters of safety and the immunity the states enjoy from federal takeovers. End of quote. He also, Napolitano writes this, quote, The Posse Comitatus Act of 1878 absolutely prohibits the use of federal troops for law enforcement purposes

[00:38:53] unless the governor of the state has requested them or unless in the case of invasion or rebellion. Now, let me stop you there for a second. And that's where I disagree with Andrew Napolitano. I agree with him 100% on the point. Yeah. I disagree slightly in that I believe this right now is an invasion and a rebellion combined. When you have over 30 million illegals in the country, and they're starting to say that's, you know, closer to the number,

[00:39:23] whether it's 20 million, I don't care what number you want to pick. It's an invasion. And when you have literally burning cars, destroying private property, it's a rebellion. And when you have, for example, in Seattle back in 2020, they literally had the police department leave their own offices to de-escalate. And they literally put a, you know, new city or whatever they want to call it called Chaz right in the middle of the Seattle district or whatever. Okay. That is flat out anarchy.

[00:39:52] That is flat out insurrection. That is flat out rebellion. That is invasion, whatever you want to call it. And now on the brink of this L.A. stuff, you literally had over the weekend this agenda, whatever you want to call this thing. You know, they say no kings or whatever. But when you find out that money, you know, it's backed by evil players, communists and everything else. Funding. You find loads of bricks being staged. You find masks being delivered.

[00:40:19] You find weapons amongst the people and everything else. You find, okay, there's a lot of peaceful protesters. I get it. But they're being betrayed and taken advantage of by these folks that are invading the country in a flat out rebellion. And then go ahead and skip the break. And then you go ahead and look at that and go, okay, on top of that now, they have over 2,000 venues over this weekend where this took place. Many of them violent. In fact, in Salt Lake City, somebody got shot and died. Yeah. All over the country.

[00:40:47] You had this assassin for political reasons go and kill some legislators in Minnesota. You had, okay, I mean, I can keep going. And so when you have over 2,000 planned events, it's a rebellion and invasion, people. You can't. So I agree with Napolitano on the general point. I guess in this case, though, I'm saying I don't believe Trump's wrong for doing this. And you say, well, what about posse comitatus? What about this? What about that? I agree 100%. We need to be careful with that.

[00:41:17] But at what point then, if Trump did nothing and he stood down or he backed off or whatever, and then it got to that level, it's going to be way harder to crack down. And so with the history, with the funding, with the amount of, I mean, 2,000, they say that up to 7 million people took part in this stuff across the country. If you're not very careful, that goes, I mean, that's a touch away from civil war almost. Well, you cannot. Okay, big international money behind this stuff.

[00:41:46] All kinds of groups that are taking credit for what happened. It's a different ballgame now. Now, we don't like that. I agree. We need to do this. But at some point, when do you stand up then? And when do you say, so Trump said he'd take action if it was considered an insurrection? Well, they already called January 6th an insurrection. And compared to this stuff, that was nothing. It was tiny and peaceful. So, you know, where do you go and where's the line is really what the debate is. And at the end of the day, it's going to be whoever has to decide, right? Yeah.

[00:42:14] Yeah, you raise really, really good points, Sam. I mean, what is an invasion? How do you define rebellion? How do you define invasion, right? And that's the ticklish part.

[00:42:26] I mean, it's so very difficult to define that in a way that you don't give the government carte blanche permission to ride in on a white horse and take control versus, you know, restraining them from doing so when there's no warrant for them to do so.

[00:42:51] I mean, the real answer, Sam, in my opinion, is that state and local authorities, they're the ones who are primarily responsible. They're the ones who need to assert their authority. They need to stop the destruction of property. They need, but you're right. You know, the blue governors, the blue mayors who order their law enforcement personnel to stand down and not arrest those who damage property, they're the ones who are guilty, in my opinion, of malfeasance and non-feasance.

[00:43:19] Well, and maybe some of those people need to be arrested, though. When you're a congressman or a senator or a governor or whatever, so look at Governor Newsom. Look at that whacked out lady, Miss Bass or whatever that's the mayor of L.A. Look at Maxine Waters that's literally running around saying there's no problem here. This is fine. Get them. Get them. Go. And this kind of stuff. When you have that kind of people that are elected to office whipping up and creating a frenzy, those people need to be stopped and arrested, too, in my opinion.

[00:43:48] Well, they certainly need to be removed from office at the very least. We need people in office who will take appropriate action when that action is warranted. And so, you know, I think the red states and the red cities are probably doing much better than the blue ones because they, yeah, I think the blue ones, they're pretty leftist. Amen. And they want the destruction of America.

[00:44:13] And that's why I say this is more like an invasion, more like a rebellion or an insurrection or whatever else because of that. And on top of this, quote, domestic discussion, you've got international repercussions as well. Headline says Israel-Iran conflict. You got that on top of it all. I mean, you do that if you're not very careful. One leads to the other or whatever you want to say. Pretty soon Iran's on our soil if you're not very careful. We got 30 million illegals and we don't even know how many of them might have ties to some of those terrorists kind of plots.

[00:44:43] And this is the point that I'm getting at. The two are tied together, unfortunately, now. Well, you're right as rain, Sam. I can't disagree with anything you just said there. So this Israel-Iran thing, and they were shooting rockets at each other yesterday, too.

[00:45:02] I mean, it started on Friday, right, and Israel launched a drone attack on Iran very much in the same way that Ukraine, the same tactic Ukraine used against Russia on June 1st, meaning they secreted drones weeks and weeks ahead of time and then synchronized those drone attacks on a number of very specific targets in Iran. Only one of their targets was the nuclear facility.

[00:45:30] The other, they were targeting nuclear scientists and military commanders. And they could easily do that in the United States right now, too, if they slip across the border in big numbers and plan a coordinated scenario. This could be our United States in about two seconds, right? Yeah, absolutely right. So it's pretty sobering, Sam, to see this happen. You know, and the fact is the Mossad, apparently, had been planning this for eight months.

[00:45:59] That Mossad is Israel's equivalent of the CIA. And so antiwar.com has a great article there talking about that Mossad had been planning this for eight months and that President Trump knew about it. And all the while, Trump was telling Iranian officials that, you know, we can still do the deal. We can still, you know, make an agreement here, nuclear agreement, and blah, blah, blah.

[00:46:25] And so this surprise attack really did take Iran by surprise, probably. And, you know, and Iran retaliated. They sent back some of these lower-grade missiles and stuff, hoping that Israel would spend its high-tech defensive measures on the low-grade missiles so that Iran could later send in its superior missiles and drones and really do some damage in Israel.

[00:46:54] Well, it's ending up in the killing of a lot of people here. You know, and Trump knew about this because he, you know, Tom Woods, an article published at LewRockwell.com, has President Trump saying this,

[00:47:36] quote,

[00:48:12] That came from Trump, you know, before the attack on Iran. So, yeah, he knew about it. And he led Iran on thinking that they were justified, you know, these talks were actually, you know, going to turn out well. But what he did was he kept insisting on that Iran could do no nuclear, you know, uranium enrichment. None at all. Yeah, let me chime in here for a second about this.

[00:48:40] Number one, Russia said that they would help enrich uranium for peaceful power-generating purposes, and that got dismissed. So I'm not promoting Russia, but I am saying that was offered and dismissed, sadly. But I will say this, though. What gives us the right to have nuclear weapons and Israel the right to have nuclear weapons? And we're going to say that we're going to draw the line at Iran. They can't because Iran's crazy. Well, Israel's crazy, too. I mean, Israel attacked Iran right now, right? Yeah.

[00:49:07] So how do we decide that we're the sovereign and we're the deciders around the world and sovereign nations? Why are we even involved in it at all? Yeah. Yeah, great point. I totally agree with you, Sam. I just don't understand why we think we're the god of the universe here. Oh, they can't have it. They're bad guys. Okay. Well, we've been pretty bad guys, too, if you go look at the history. And Israel's been bad guys, too. And so it's hard for me to play bad guy, good guy, or that we have some sovereignty or some lordship over other people.

[00:49:37] When the president knew about the attacks, he knew about it. He helped get weaponry there. He's helped get training. They evacuated their embassies in advance. We have all kinds of evidence that he knew about it. But then he's like, oh, we're not involved. Yeah. Well, is he lying? It all depends on how you define involved, right? Well, at the end of the day, he says we'll probably or could get involved. Is this the next World War III? Are they going to turn Donald Trump into a war president? I pray the answer is no, but predict at some point the answer is yes. Lowell? Yeah.

[00:50:07] Well, you got that right. Right. And, you know, in the Tom Woods column, he made a really important point. There's somebody named Sean Davis whose quote Tom put into his column. And it talks about this loss of trust in America.

[00:50:25] Basically, he writes this quote, when the U.S. government and NATO helped overthrow Gaddafi and destroy Libya after he voluntarily gave up his weapons of mass destruction in good faith, they communicated to every regime on Earth to never give up their weapons program and to never negotiate with the United States. And that's the point. We're the bad guys. Yeah, we are the bad guys.

[00:50:50] There's been nearly 200 regime change operations conducted by the U.S. administration, the CIA mainly, since 1950, right? That's what, 75 years? In the past 75 years? I mean, you look at North Korea too, Sam. North Korea, once upon a time, did not have nuclear weapons. But they have them now.

[00:51:14] And, you know, we didn't say they couldn't have – well, we tried to draw a line, but they went ahead and got them because they're right next to China. We don't want to deal with China. Oh, so our most favored nation trading partner betrayed and gave it to them? And then we're going to let China have weapons, but they can and they can't? And see what I mean, folks? It's crazy. If anybody's crazy, it's the communist Chinese and the Russians. I mean, I'm not saying these other guys aren't crazy too. I'm just saying don't act like Iran's crazy and China's not. Come on now.

[00:51:41] Well, the fruits of neocon American foreign policy over the last quarter century, that's what we're seeing. It's not just the last quarter century. As I say, the last three quarters, right, the last nearly 75 years, this neocon American foreign policy has got us into the trouble we're in. And we're not going to – you know, if we don't change our policy, our foreign policy, then we're going to still be in the same pickle 25 years from now.

[00:52:09] And we're going to throw Iran in the arms of North Korea and China. Yeah. Yeah, that's what we're doing. Look out, folks. We've got to stop it. Anyway, our prayers are with peace rejecting war. And it starts with Congress defunding and cutting military spending big time. And that would actually let us not raise the debt ceiling as well, by the way. Final story. We've got great news before the end of the hour.

[00:52:32] Yeah, we had to throw in a good news story, Sam, and that is RFK Jr. fired all 17 prior advisors on this CDC vaccine panel. He fired all 17 of them. And he repopulated this panel with COVID skeptics like Robert Malone and Martin Kulldorff and basically pledging a renewed focus on safety and public trust. Well, I think – And I don't call them skeptics. I call them realists, by the way.

[00:53:01] There you go. Yes, that's for sure. And anyway, the panel is going to convene in about a week, about 10 days from now. Kulldorff, by the way, helped draft the Great Barrington Declaration. Malone, who conducted early work on the mRNA vaccine delivery system, was banned from several platforms, you know, just like Bhattacharya and Sunetra Gupta, right? I mean, these are people now that are going in and they're helping RFK Jr.

[00:53:31] And what's the bottom line here? Well, basically, it is such a welcome change. Joel Skousen chimes in with this thought, quote, This is RFK Jr.'s way of being able to say he still supports vaccines while putting them under the microscope of real trials and efficacy studies that most vaccines won't pass. And then he'll have more than just damage claims from individuals, right?

[00:53:58] To make his case against unsafe vaccines. End of quote. Man, Sam, this is really encouraging. I hope it comes through. Pray for RFK Jr. Pray for the truth to come forth, folks. We're not, we don't want to, you know, play the game either way. It isn't political. This is the American people. And the protection of the American people at stake. For Lowell Nelson, CampaignForLiberty.org. And yours truly, Sam Bushman. Thanks so much for being alongside the ride.

[00:54:27] We're flat out of time. Check out our incredible work. LibertyRoundtable.com. We are syndicated by the Loving Liberty Radio Network. LovingLiberty.net. Spread the word. Share the love. And for Sam and Lowell, God save our republic.